Help me understand please!

[WorriedDad]

Hello group,
This might be a bit long , but I am totally new to this and am going through what feels like one of the worst weeks of my life. I am a male and had a son at age 18, his mother would not let me be a part of his life unless she was there too and we were too incompatible. Flash forward 25 years, I have married as has my son's mother. I now live halfway across the country from her and had still not met my son, though we had spoken on the phone over the past 3 years. We bought him a plane ticket so we could finally meet and it was like he was always a part of our family, my wife loves him right off the bat as do my 4 other children. He stayed for a week and then went home and came out again a month later for a 4 day weekend. During this time he and my 17 yo daughter had sex, I discovered this from texts they were sending each other via cell phone. Now I need to make a few things clear about my daughter, she is a very pretty girl, and very smart as well, she is a little socially awkward as she started school late in life due to some medical problems that are no longer an issue, but have left her 2 years behind where she would normally be in school so she has always associated with kids 2 or 3 years younger then herself. She has never had a boyfriend, there was one boy she really liked last year, but he ended up dating her best friend so that really crushed her self esteem. I should also add that she is the oldest of the 4 children my wife and I have together. OK back to the story, When we first talked about this subject with my daughter we found out they had even discussed getting married and running off together. (This is the part where I think some of this group may start boo-ing me) We told her that a sexual relationship with her half brother was inappropriate and that it was over. We also told her that she was not getting her cell phone back for a while till we figured out what was going on and how best to deal with the situation. She got hysterical and clawed skin out of her arm drawing blood, then she withdrew completely and wouldn't even acknowledge us, this went on all night. We ended up taking her to a local Psychiatric hospital because we were worried she might further hurt herself and the hospital agreed that in her state she needed inpatient treatment. they admitted her for sever depression and self mutilation. this was on Monday, its now Thursday, and they have diagnosed her with severe Bi-polar disorder, a condition her mother suffers as well.
I have talked extensively with my son and he has agreed to not contact her while we try to stabilize her mental health. I need to stress here that I DO NOT HATE MY SON!!! I am really having a hard time with this but I still love him and I am worried about him as well as he has not had a very good life and has attempted suicide before. He doesn't think that there is anything wrong with having this sort of relationship with his 17 year old sister, but does feel very bad about causing his "New" family pain. I do not discount that, the more I am reading on this subject the more I wonder how the hell to help the two of them.

Here the problems I am having:

1) First and foremost, a 26 year old man has no business having sex with my 17 year old daughter PERIOD! Honestly if he were any other person I would have had him already prosecuted. (In the state we live in what he did is sexual assault of a minor) Now I am torn because I am worried about both of my children's well being but come on does anyone here think it is OK for a 26 year old to have sex with a 17 year old?especially when she is a naive, virgin. Since my son is an adult and my daughter is not, I feel More morally responsible for her then I do for him.

2) Second, can anyone direct me to real research that can show the long term effects of these types of relationships, All I have been able to find so far are stats on incest between brothers and sisters where they grew up together and those stats arent very good when the ages are as vast as this.

3) and finally, Now that she has been diagnosed as bi polar, I don't even know for sure if what happened was GSA, or something else.

I have told them both that no matter what we are a family and will work through this together, I am trying to figure out if it is GSA, does that excuse him from his actions? Should I prosecute to protect my daughter, and would I really be protecting her or my illusions of what I think a "Normal" relationship is. See, both pieces of this bother me equally right now, the age difference and the GSA. Any honest help or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[cedarforest]

Thanks for your honesty, your words & tone show allot of love, hurt, & confusion. They reflect your maturity too. It would be easy to lash out at "us", rather than reach out to us. I will think about the dilemma you're in, & the questions you asked, & try to respond, once I've digested & thought it out. There's some folks on this site that may certainly be able to assist you. I seen some enlightened advice, since my short time on this site.

One thing I can answer very quickly. GSA doesn't excuse actions that hurt & ruin lives, never ever, period. There's signs of GSA here, but it's far from established, at this point. I know you love both your son & daughter, but your son is a "seasoned" 26 year old who you have limited knowledge of & has shown mental instability. You daughter sounds somewhat emotionally stunted, & a minor you're still responsible for. There's no question who you should focus on, ESPECIALLY if your son don't understand the gravity of his CRIME. All involved (you & your wife too) need intense counseling, hopefully with someone who understands reunion issues. I'll pray for all of you.--cedarforest

[lostsister]

Dear Worried Dad, I sent you a PM....

[WorriedDad]

Hi Lostsister,

Sent you an email. Thanks for the offer of help. It is much appreciated.

[cap]

I hate GSA

[cap]

I hate GSA

[mygatorbait]

Dear WORRIED DAD,

I am so sorry your having to deal with these issues. I am going to tell you a little bit about my past so maybe you can see your daughters side of things. I am my father eldest daughter, he had an affair on my mother when I was three and got a woman pregnant with my brother (my brother I am having the GSA problems with right now). Growing up I new that he was out there, I had never met him though, and about 3 months ago he looked me up. It was magic the moment we hugged, he brought is daughter with him and stayed a weekend with me. My heart melted for them both, immediatley we both felt weird, the way we looked at one another wasn't the way we looked at our other siblings. The weekend he came to town it was him, myself, one other sister, and our younger brother. So it wasn't that we were alone, it was more than that, it was complete chemistry, to a level and extreme I have never experienced. So I feel what your daughter is telling you. And I know her pain and her confusion.

To tell you a little bit about me, I was your normal child, great grades, in to all kinds of sports and NEVER went with out a boyfriend, since then I have married and divorced with children I might add. By telling you this because I want you to understand that I am a completely normal woman, not someone who was or is desperate for attention and just happened to find it with my half brother. As far as my brother, haha, he is and always has been a ladies man, he had no reason to fall in love with me his older sister. As a matter of fact since we are being honest, if someone had told me a story like mine six months ago, I would have been completely grossed out by it. And I wouldn't ever condone this behavior from my children. I am very religious and have very strong morals.However now that I know about GSA I would make sure all of my children are raised together very close. Hopefully to prevent any of my children from ever having this sort of thing happen to them, it is painful and very confusing to say the least. My father has questioned us both, and he's not a very comforting man so we have both denied it to the fullest, and told him he's crazy. More than anything though I am sure your children are hurting and feeling very alone and withdrawln from society, they NEED you right now. I wish I had family I could turn to, I am so scarred if they did know they would disown me for even feeling this way, a way that I can't help or control.

Seeing as how I am new to this as well I can't offer any advice on the GSA, but I can tell you your daughter and your son need you right now. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever dealt with and I wish just one person would hug me and tell me everything will be ok. Some days are good and others like today I couldn't hardly peel my self off my couch. Might I add I am A.D.D. and probably the most out going and high strung person you could ever meet. So for me to be on the couch is really out of sorts.
I will be praying for you and your family, good luck and may God bless you in you!
One small request if your daughter was to mention being weird and bad, please tell her that this just happens to some of us and that another lady out there wishes to tell her she's not weird and this is not her fault.

[mermaid]

Hi,
lots of people on here have helped me a lot. I'm both a bit of an outsider ( I'm a wife) like you and also new!
I can only say that i would be worried about your daughter getting psych help for anything other than GSA. Did you tell the psych people about that or not? If not then they will be treating her inapproriately and she might be better off with no treatment
I think it's essential to give daughter and son as much info about GSA as you can ( and her medical team too but be careful as they will probably feel they have to report actions to the authorities.....they should be able to keep feelings confidential but I still don't know whether they will A, believe you and b, be able to make use of the info).
I think it's also important to let both son, daughter and yourselves know that it seems ( not for everyone, not all the time) that these very intense feelings can change (?fade) when given time....and as daughter is so young that probably matters.
they both need to know that their feelings are not bad, they are natural.
good luck

[WorriedDad]

Hi CAP,

Thank you for taking the time to offer your advise, it is appreciated.

There are a couple of things in your post that I feel I need to correct or maybe clarify.

First of all, everything I have seen so far suggests that GSA is not fatal, Bi-Polar disorder can be, many people with Bi-Polar kill themselves during a depression swing. I feel it is kind of like a triage situation where we need to stabilize her mental condition, then examine her feelings for her h/b. I am NOT discounting GSA in any way, shape, or form. That is why I am here, to get as much information as I can to try and help my children work through this, whatever the outcome is. I am not about to loose my son again, nor am I going to loose my daughter. I am not going to lie to anyone on this board and say I am OK with the thought of them having this kind of relationship, but give me a break, its only been 5 days since I even knew about this. I will work through what ever I need to, my children's well being comes first.

Bi-Polar disorder can manifest itself at any age. but commonly starts in the late teens to early adult hood (this fits for my daughter)
Children with a Bi-Polar parent are 4 to 6 times more likely to develop Bi-Polar than a child whose parents aren't Bi-Polar. (This fits my Daughter, My Wife is Bi-Polar, and wasn't diagnosed until her mid twenties)
She entered a severe depression state earlier this year when the boy she liked started dating her friend. This was one of the times she started cutting herself, and writing poetry about killing herself

I can go on, but it gets a bit redundant, Mmy point is there are a lot of reasons to be more concerned with treating the Bi-Polar disorder first. The hospital is fully aware of the entire situation, and is highly respected in the mental health field. She was admitted before we had any idea what GSA was. I am working now to find a Psychiatrist that is familiar with GSA to work with her and us once she is out of the hospital. My wife and I are meeting with our family doctor today to discuss the situation and see what he knows about GSA, if so what information he can offer and find out if he can refer us to a Psychiatrist that he knows that is familiar with GSA.

Now for the nasty part, you said "I'd get her out of the nuthouse, you put her there with good intentions but for bogus reasons." First of all, we did not put her in a "Nuthouse" Your terminology is offensive and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern mental health treatment. Secondly, we had her admitted because she caused physical harm to herself. During the evaluation at the hospital she admitted to "cutting" episodes over the past year, and was talking about suicide. When you ignore these things you quite frequently end up with a dead child.
Again, once her mental health has been stabilized, we will start the process of working through the GSA TOGETHER AS A FAMILY, including my son. I have spoken or texted with him every day to let him know what is going on with my daughter, to let him know that I still love him and want him to be a part of my life, and to try and convince him to see someone about working through the emotions he is going through without doing anything rash. I stated in my OP that he said he has attempted suicide before, I don't want him hurting himself or doing some kind of mental damage to himself over this. My concern is for BOTH of my children, Yes I am angry that he took advantage of the situation and had sex with her. Sorry but Romeo and Juliette is a fictional story, not real life. In real life adults are supposed to resist urges that are illegal, and could be damaging to another individual, especially a minor. If all I were concerned about were keeping them separated, the easiest thing to do would be to call the police. He can't see her very well from prison and trust me when I say that in the state I live in that is exactly where he would end up. That was one of my first impulses but I resisted it because I didn't have enough information to make an informed decision.

I do appreciate your insight and hope you can understand where I am coming from.
Thanks,
WorriedDad

Originally Posted by cap

I have a little experience with both sides of your situation, in that I fell madly in love with my full sister 6.5 years ago, and that I am a father with 2 children - one a young dauther, so I know what its like to be protective of your precious little one.

This is a tough one. But perhaps we can work through it. It seems very clear that your son and daughter are in love, and want to be together. She's only his half sister, and they didn't grow up together. In a family sense because they didn't grow up together, shes doesn't see him as her brother. She's in love, and it sounds like she's head over heals. My sister is my FULL sister, but to this day I really don't see her as my sister, just the most beautiful woman I ever saw who is perfect for me in every way.

So far you have acted like an overly concerned protective father, using all the tools available to separate these two. I'm not sure im buying the bipolar excuse, if shes so bipolar how come she hasen't been locked up before? Why hasen't she been on pipolar medication before this? It seems like this is a convient excuse to lock her up so they can't be together. The self mutilation thing, has this been a problem before? Or just after you told her she can't see the man she thinks shes in love with? I'd get her out of the nuthouse, you put her there with good intentions but for bogus reasons.

When she's back home (assuming you come to your senses and get her out), you should sit her down and have a talk with her - and offer to make her a deal. Explain to her that she will be allowed to see her brother, but until she's 18 she can only see him under supervised visits. I think thats a fair compromise. Tell her your her father and love her, and when shes a legal adult she can decide for herself what she wants, but until then she lives under house and your rules. Shes your child, deal with her as her parent. Don't lock her up. Encourage her to date other men to make sure her brother is really what she wants. If she's still in love with her brother when she's 18 than she's free to do what she wants, and you'll give her your support and her wings.

What im trying to do is make it so she doesn't hate you, and thats exactly what will happen if you keep up with this course of events. You have to let her make her own decisions & mistakes in life. If you keep her and her brother apart, she will hate you. Don't think that by keeping them apart they will just magically become "brother & sister", they won't. They didn't grow up together. If you keep them apart she'll just blame you forever for ruining the love of her life. If you let them be together now (supervised), and give her your support when she's 18 than at least she made the decision and if it doesn't work out she will know that it wasen't meant to be. And she will figure it out on her own and not hold you responsible. In a way, you dont have a choice, she's almost 18. But maybe you can make it seem like your being flexable.

You have to be reasonable, I know you see her as your little girl, but she's almost an adult. If your totally unreasonable you'll lose her, because very soon she'll be 18 and can do what she wants anyways. If you try to be reasonable now maybe she'll listen to you when she turns 18, because then you'll have absolutely no say. Because she's so close to being a legal adult, the only real choice you have is the old saying "if you love something set it free". You can explain to her what your advice is (assuming you know yourself), but you are soon going to have to let her live her life and make her own mistakes.

The last thing you want is for you to lose your daughter. She doesn't deserve to be locked up, thats cruel. Its not her fault that she didn't grow up with her brother and fell in love with him. Thats the situation, she's in love with him. You see them both as your children, but they see themselves as lovers and probably soalmates. Shes a 17 year old hormonal teenager, it would be like trying to keep Romeo and Juliet apart, and we all know how that ended.

Just one more thing. When I met my sister 6.5 years ago, I was living near my adopted parents. They figured out after our first visit that I was in love with her, they could tell. My mother said she thought she was more my girlfriend than my sister. When I went to sell may house and move 100 milse away near my sister and mess my life up, it crushed them. But, they decided rather than fight with me, they would give me my wings and let me chase my dream. Well, me moving near my sister was a disaster. Within 6 months I wound up moving back closer to my parents again, with my tail between my legs. I was completely defeated because my sister didn't return my feelings and I wound up ruining my life and losing tons of money.

BUT, a funny thing happened! Me and my parents became closer. I see them as friends now. Why? because they loved me so much that they didn't try to stop me from following my dreams. They got out of the way and set me free. I will always love them for that. They could have been jerks and tried everything to keep me from moving away, but they didn't. They let me go off and make my own mistakes, because you can only really learn from your own mistakes.

I hope you do the right thing. I wish you and your son & daughter well.

Cap

[WorriedDad]

Hi Mermaid,

Thank you for your response,

I am curious why you would be concerned about her being treated for anything except GSA, If she is Bi-Polar, she is Bi-Polar and I think the stress from being new to a GSA will only exacerbate the mood swings if not treated. I don't know if you are familiar with the symptoms of the disorder, but a lot of what she has been going through the past year points to it. As I have said in my reply to CAP, I am not discounting GSA, but feel it is appropriate to try and stabilize her mental health first. I am going to talk to her doctor today about the GSA. I am hopeful that we are able to find someone local that is familiar with the subject and can help us work through where ever this ends up going.
As for giving them info on GSA, I have been giving it to my son as I have been discovering it, but with my daughter we have very limited time to speak with her (10 min a day on the phone and 1 hour visits three times a week) Remember I am only 5 days into this now so my knowledge is woefully inadequate, that is why I am here. It is why I will be speaking with her doctors, and why I will be searching for a Psychiatrist that is familiar with it for all of us. The hospital and her OB/GYN are already aware of the situation with her h/b and we haven't been contacted by the police yet so we will just have to wait and see on that one.